Hard Decisions
We got the apartment. But we aren't taking it. The landlord had dinner with us and he was a joy -- very nice, open-minded, honest. But then we got to thinking about a few things and decided NOT to take the apartment. We called him right away on Saturday morning because we did not want him to hold the flat for us, he said a family wanted it and so perhaps there is a happy family in Hannover this morning. But it's not us because we think we may have made a decision that wasn't based on fact but on our own opinion and feeling. And opinions and feelings are not fact-based so therefore may not even be real, right?
So we will begin our search once again. And so I enter this week a bit disappointed in myself but most of all wondering why it was that I allowed emotion to override establishing truth and what matters. Have you ever made a decision that you instantly realized was wrong but was too late to take back? I can only hope that I've learned something from my misjudgment. To err is human, right?
I think part of the "problem" with all of this boiled down to having dinner with this man, a sort of "character interview" or evaluation, it really scared me. It is all still so new to me to be considered "lesser" because we run our own business and do not work for corporations as is the "preferred" way to live and work.
Allow me to explain. And I'd love your opinion on this if you are also an expat. My husband always says to me, "Holly you seem so scared of Germans, just be yourself!". Truth is, I am scared, partly because I know I am in outsider and I've only lived in one country my entire life where I knew the ins and outs of everything. And partly because I work for myself and the many, many people who I have told here seem to look upon me as though I am lacking. And I guess my pride is the problem. But from what I'm seeing and hearing the general public questions artists and creative types as though we are living on the edge, unreliable, two steps away from poverty. And I think this is what I have a hard time with, having to "prove" myself. I guess I just don't want to prove anything. I know who I am and what I can afford and how much money I have in my bank account that I have saved for the peaks and lows that freelancers experience.
But in Germany there is a problem with laws -- seems they have laws for everything from dog tax to television tax but they fail to protect property owners with laws that give them the opportunity to evict poor tenants. Property owners need to demand more rights and laws need to change to give them the right to exercise those laws. From what I've read, landlords are so suspicious because tenants can really squat in their property for a long, long time because steps cannot be taken to evict them. I read that if a tenant wants to pay 5,- Euro a month, because this is viewed as an "intent to pay" that it makes it very hard for landlords to take the tenant to court. Imagine that? It's very, very sad and as a result, the reason why so many who own apartments tend to take renting them super seriously. Renting an apartment is painful as a result. I guess it took me this weekend and hours of research to really understand all of this. I've been renting property since I was 19-years-old so I expect things to be a certain way and here they are not. At least in Hannover as it is a small community (at least in List/Oststadt where we are looking for a flat) and I still feel really new here.
In the end, this has to change. Germany needs laws to protect landlords. And overall most need to change their attitude when it comes to small business owners. Some of us are quite successful and have a solid back up plan. Isn't an established company only as stable as it's next lay off anyway? I was an Human Resources manager for years before I left to pursue my own creative interests and build my company from the ground up. But I am very well aware of how "stable" big businesses are and well, they are not. Does not the recent news in America make Germans well aware of this fact? The big bail outs, the companies that had to merge or close? The massive cut backs and lay offs? I think it's obvious that a society needs to be made up of many types of people, a patchwork of sorts, and that together we all get things accomplished - the small business owners, the mid-sized and the massive corporations. All can exist and be supported and make great progress -- TOGETHER. One is not better than the other.
So, due to my own misjudgment, we are back to hunting for an apartment. Perhaps next time I shall employ reason and practicality over emotion and now that I better understand the laws, I will be more sympathetic and rational and not so "scared" when landlords appear skeptical of us being small business owners and relatively new here. I understand. But the overall perception of small business owners still needs to change.
And so the search continues....
So we will begin our search once again. And so I enter this week a bit disappointed in myself but most of all wondering why it was that I allowed emotion to override establishing truth and what matters. Have you ever made a decision that you instantly realized was wrong but was too late to take back? I can only hope that I've learned something from my misjudgment. To err is human, right?
I think part of the "problem" with all of this boiled down to having dinner with this man, a sort of "character interview" or evaluation, it really scared me. It is all still so new to me to be considered "lesser" because we run our own business and do not work for corporations as is the "preferred" way to live and work.
Allow me to explain. And I'd love your opinion on this if you are also an expat. My husband always says to me, "Holly you seem so scared of Germans, just be yourself!". Truth is, I am scared, partly because I know I am in outsider and I've only lived in one country my entire life where I knew the ins and outs of everything. And partly because I work for myself and the many, many people who I have told here seem to look upon me as though I am lacking. And I guess my pride is the problem. But from what I'm seeing and hearing the general public questions artists and creative types as though we are living on the edge, unreliable, two steps away from poverty. And I think this is what I have a hard time with, having to "prove" myself. I guess I just don't want to prove anything. I know who I am and what I can afford and how much money I have in my bank account that I have saved for the peaks and lows that freelancers experience.
But in Germany there is a problem with laws -- seems they have laws for everything from dog tax to television tax but they fail to protect property owners with laws that give them the opportunity to evict poor tenants. Property owners need to demand more rights and laws need to change to give them the right to exercise those laws. From what I've read, landlords are so suspicious because tenants can really squat in their property for a long, long time because steps cannot be taken to evict them. I read that if a tenant wants to pay 5,- Euro a month, because this is viewed as an "intent to pay" that it makes it very hard for landlords to take the tenant to court. Imagine that? It's very, very sad and as a result, the reason why so many who own apartments tend to take renting them super seriously. Renting an apartment is painful as a result. I guess it took me this weekend and hours of research to really understand all of this. I've been renting property since I was 19-years-old so I expect things to be a certain way and here they are not. At least in Hannover as it is a small community (at least in List/Oststadt where we are looking for a flat) and I still feel really new here.
In the end, this has to change. Germany needs laws to protect landlords. And overall most need to change their attitude when it comes to small business owners. Some of us are quite successful and have a solid back up plan. Isn't an established company only as stable as it's next lay off anyway? I was an Human Resources manager for years before I left to pursue my own creative interests and build my company from the ground up. But I am very well aware of how "stable" big businesses are and well, they are not. Does not the recent news in America make Germans well aware of this fact? The big bail outs, the companies that had to merge or close? The massive cut backs and lay offs? I think it's obvious that a society needs to be made up of many types of people, a patchwork of sorts, and that together we all get things accomplished - the small business owners, the mid-sized and the massive corporations. All can exist and be supported and make great progress -- TOGETHER. One is not better than the other.
So, due to my own misjudgment, we are back to hunting for an apartment. Perhaps next time I shall employ reason and practicality over emotion and now that I better understand the laws, I will be more sympathetic and rational and not so "scared" when landlords appear skeptical of us being small business owners and relatively new here. I understand. But the overall perception of small business owners still needs to change.
And so the search continues....
Comments
Sorry to hear about the apartment, here in Ireland innovative, creative people with their own enterprises are seen as enterpreneurs so maybe you should of taken that apartment and that way you may have changed the views of the landlord. It is probably only a perception and you too may be reading into it too much. On the other hand, however the landlords are renting the apartments for residential use and they may see your working from home as a commercial use, this may have something to do with it?
All things nice...
Nicole, Stuttgart.
We were questioned about my Husband's job (He works for the US government), what his actual job entailed and even our educational backgrounds! I could tell we were being scrutinized from our clothing down to the manners of our children whom were required to attend the "meet the Landlord session" I was ready to tell them to 'stuff it' but my Husband advised me to play it cool as they were only trying to protect their investment. We eventually agreed to rent the place and they turned out to be great Landlords, however, we keep them at arms length and have no social relationship with them even though we know they are keen to do so. Strictly business all the way.
I agree Holly, that the German way of doing business is a little strange. In the UK things are more casual, and as long as you have the cash and your credit checks pan out you are good to go.
I think all things happen for a reason and I'm sure there is an amazing flat out there just waiting for you. Hope you find it soon
I feel sorry for German property renters, and I feel sorry for the effects of those laws. My husband and I had to pay three months rent in a deposit, plus another month for our first month. That's nearly the amount of a down payment. For something I don't own. That's the effect of those laws.
If the vibe wasn't right, you made the right decision. It's not just the place, it's the people. Especially in Germany where you actually talk to your neighbors and landlord.
Thank you so much to let us see the "german way" from your perspective.(It´s really helpful and "eyes opening")
Love your blog (especially since we just found a new apartment ourselves and going to move in May)!!!
Good luck with your search!
K.
I know you are a very busy woman but if at all possible make learning German a top priority. I mean where you can hold the conversation fluently. I believe this will help you in so many more ways than you know speaking from personal experience. The language allows you to become fully integrated, and you have the best teacher ever ~ Thorsten. Have two nights a week, for starters, where you only speak German with one another. You might struggle but it will push you. :)
The right flat will be there at just the right time. I believe it! X
Honestly, the only times I've gotten myself into trouble were the times I didn't listen to that little inner voice telling me to go the other way. It can be perfect in every single way, but if it just didn't 'feel' right, you made the right decision.
It's hard enough to explain to a lot of people what an illustrator does, and not everyone takes it seriously, even though I work 70+ hour weeks and am completely organised with my finances, just like you.
Of course Artists/Creatives don't live any more on the edge than employees. Maybe some do, but some employees do, too. I think the people who matter will understand how amazing it is what you're doing. It's impossible to please everyone. And I'm sure you'll still find your pefect apartment either way.
x
At least you are married with a German guy that can explain you how the people in Germany think.
I have thousands words to say about that theme, it was an issue for me. I was feeling all the time that I need to "prove" that I was good....
It is better if you can be yourself without thinking on that, but I agree that is not easy when they are looking at you in that way. I think with the time you will learn to do it but at the begining is hard.
We all think you rock and your freelance career is something to aspire to, not look down upon :) Head up!
When it starts getting to you, remind yourself of all the wonderful things you've accomplished. Surround yourself with love and support and try to block out strangers' views.
Luckily, my husband has a 'real' job, so we've never had to deal with this issue when moving. I can't imagine how hard this must be for you and your husband.
Katie
When we go to see apartments in general, we speak only German though my husband drives the conversation as he is German and fluent so this has nothing to do with the language at all! :)
I liked what someone else said...that maybe if you had taken the apartment you would have changed the landlord's perception about people who were self-employed because obviously you are very successful.I think he would have loved having you as a tenant.
I am not entirely clear on why you decided not to take the apt but if it didn't feel right it's not right.
Just to give you some info on what it's like to rent in Luxembourg ... from what i can it's also very hard to evict tenants here and probably because of this the landlords charge astronomical amounts for deposits or "guarantees". They then hold the money in a "joint account" with the tenant but only the landlord has the power over the money. He/she can release it to the tenant when the tenant moves out or the landlord can withdraw it for their own use (in theory to pay for any damages or outstanding charges from the tenants' heating, building maintenance, etc. bills).
Our landlord from our previous flat is still holding a third of our money (about 2,000 Euros) and it's been 5 months since we moved out with a near perfect exit inspection (only a few minor paint scuffs on doors). We are considering using a local consumer group to help us recover the money that is rightfully ours (minus any outstanding bills, but we think that is negligible and the landlord is just being a JERK and shifty.) We just found out today that our former neighbors who moved out a couple months after us are not getting ANY of their deposit back because of "major damages". I saw their apt regularly and it was in pristine condition, they had it professional painted in tasteful colors and had it cleaned twice a week by professional.
There are a lot of expats that come and go in Luxembourg so i think the landlords look at us as easy money and they don't expect us to question them. often US businesses pay for the rent (and any extra charges) as a part of the expat's package.
Ironically, in our situation my husband, though American, was a "local hire" so we are technically not "expats" so we didn't get any rent benefits and we don't have a US corporation HR department to take care of any sticky landlord issues. I think this surprised our landlord and he wasn't expecting us to insist on getting ALL of our deposit back.
My husband had to provide proof of his income and show bank account balances, etc in order for us to rent.
My point with all of this is that i think it's SO important to have a good feeling about the landlord relationship. Even if the person is very nice, you need to feel like there is mutual trust and respect. our current landlords are WONDERFUL and it's a world of difference. we are so much more relaxed, feel like they trust and respect us, and in turn we only want the very best for the apt and we really care to ensure we are the best of tenants. the previous apt was more like "how can we protect ourselves from the snake-landlord???"
sorry for the long-winded response! good luck!!!
Maybe there are laws per say in America but there are rules - especially in certain cities like Seattle, San Francisco, the South where you are expected to be one way and anything outside that is weird and judged harshly. When you're outside of people's understandings, there's a personal penalty.
I think that's why I love LA so much because it's the first place where I didn't feel judge, where there weren't rules, where everyone just did their own thing. But that was also a double edge sword.
I have noticed, however, that the more confident and 'over' I've become of being judged and having to explain to people the less of an issue it's become but it's still there.
I'm female, I look young, I have an accent, I don't have a family or an employer so it can be very, very tough and isolating. But that's my choice - it is what it is. Just keep moving forward with it. You'll find a place - and people - that are OK with it.
I am sorry to hear how difficult it seems to have become to rent in Germany. I grew up there and never had an interview with the owner or anything like that. But you are right, because in Germany most people rent rather than own, renters are very "protected" as a result. And I can give you examples where that has been a good thing when the landlord was trying to play dirty.
In Germany it is not possible to fire someone as easily as it is here in America. There is no such thing as "at will" employment in Germany, at least not when I lived there. It is difficult and costly to fire people, especially if they have worked at the same company for a long time. It used to be that after 10 or so years you had a lifelong right to that job, not sure if that law is still in place. As a result jobs are more "secure." I am sure that all this is changing in view of today's economy but it being Germany that is probably a slow process.
There is much about my home country that I love and miss but I have to say one thing: I do feel more "free" over here in the US. The litigation mentality aside (hate that) I find that I am much more accepted as I am, that I can get a good job because of my demonstrated skills rather than a degree, and that as long as I am willing to work hard I will always be able to find employment. There is less judgment and more opportunity.
Anyway, like I said, it is commendable that you are sticking to your guns which makes me very confident that eventually you will find the right place.
Kopf hoch :) Kerstin
I feel with you and your husband. In Germany there's the current opinion (and prejudice) that only lawyers, judges, magistrates, engineers, doctors, university professors and teachers etc. have a solid job. These are the much-admired jobs here and for these all doors are open. For freelancers (esp. for a creative person like a writer, designer, painter, etc.) most doors are closed. Creative work is mostly regarded as a hobby. If one of a married couple is a freelancer, it is accepted as long as the other partner has a 'solid' job. If both are creative freelancers, it becomes difficult.
I think it's very narrow-minded and wrong, but most German people think that way and close unconsciously the way for talents.
This is the mentality here and from my point of view this will not change in the future, because most Germans are not flexible enough in their way of thinking.
Best wishes! Ksenia
PS.: I'm from Hannover, too. If you have any questions, feel free to contact me.
That said, I completely understand sometimes feeling uncomfortable, judged or even scared as an expat. Though I'm a dual Canadian/British citizen and have lived here for more than three years, I still have moments when I feel like Brits just don't "get" me, or vice versa. It's an extremely isolating feeling!
As for renting, it's also been a bit of a problem for me. My boyfriend is the sole leaseholder on our current flat as our landlord wouldn't except my application. (At the time we moved in I had a good job but no National Insurance Number yet. That was the excuse given, though a NIN is not a legal necessity for renting here and I felt it had more to do with me being a foreigner.) It hasn't been a problem so far- I just pay him half the rent every month- but we are now beginning the process of moving back to Canada, and of course "proving" our relationship to the immigration authorities is tricker when we're not on the same lease.
Try not to beat yourself up over this- learn from the experience and move on. You met one great landlord and made him like you, you can do it again!
I´m crossing my fingers from spain :)
I did live in the UK and in India, while part of my family lives in Ireland - even if the laws might be different, prejudices and reluctances are everywhere the same. And naturally people have difficulties changing their ideas and culture in their own country - they have build their country and their culture along their ideas - I often wonder why other countries don't do it as we do - obviously our way makes the most sense, doesn't it ;-)? And some of you expats in Germany would just believe in the opposite and wonder where I got that silly idea from. People all around the world don't exactly like foreigners to tell them that their views and ideas do not makes sense, do they? Just try not the see the people in your communities as THE people in your community and even if their ideas don't make sense to you - try to go with it. Sometimes smiling, thinking to yourself that it doesn't makes sense and shrugging your shoulders about the "stupid" ideas of the locals makes life much easier because you cannot fight it if you want to stay healthy abroad.
Sorry that this has become such a long post... All the best for your appartement, Holly! I am sure that the right one just makes you waiting a bit to enjoy it even more when you eventually find it!
christine
I haven been following your blogs for quite some time - thank you for both the interior insights as well as the insights into the American view on German life. It is so helpful and interesting to have this view. I am sorry that your app hunt is so difficult and I am wishing you lots of luck (living in Hamburg I understand your frustration - I am on and off the appartement hunt due to phases of high frustration myself).
I have sometimes wondered about commenting on your blog but today, I finally feel the need to. At first I got quite upset about some points and comments - it felt too much like a general talk of THE Americans, THE Germans, THE ... and that always disappoints me. I think that integration will be always problematic if you think of the people in the country which you moved to as THE Soandsos. Some people in Germany jugde their neighbours if they did not cut the grass the way they are supposed to, yes - but others don't. Yes, most people want to know someone else before they want or actually can open up - but I have similar feelings and difficulties to adapt and find friends in Northern Germany as a southern German Girl (although I have never had the feeling that this is a respect issue but more some sort of careful and sometimes annoying reluctance). Most things in Germany are more secure and stable than in other countries - health care, renting, a work contract which is secure and on which you can organise your life for years to come, workers rights etc. So most people would simply be too scared to be self-employed themselves because then they need to take care of all these secure rights by themselves (I really would be scared and wonder how people actually live without this double-triple safety net - and I actually like taking risks in life ;-). I think that what might come across as disrespect is just the fact that people could never imagine themselve to be so daring - so be proud of yourself! There is no need to be scared at all!
Concerning the German need for deposits and assessments with the proprietor: my family had the experience more than once that a tenant would not pay the rent in time - at first, the money came a couple of days late, then a month, then not at all - in the end, the tenant was suddenly gone, the room needed renovation (and the deposit paid only for a small part of it) and in total a couple of thousand Euro were lost. The lawyer just said that it would be forlorn hope to follow thoses cases - the little money those people most probably have would be less than a lawyers fee. So we just dropped it... we do know judge ALL people not matter where they are from or how old they are or what they do because it is our house which we love and which we want others to respect as well. And I know a lot of people who rented out and did not have pleasant experiences.
Sometimes I feel like when comparing our two cultures it is like comparing logic with emotion… both are fantastic, but both have flaws. You know… “too much of a good thing, is just too much.” On one hand it is such thinking and training that has made Germany so well known for top quality, well-made, and super engineered products. On the other hand, it is that freedom and opportunity to succeed as a “self-made” person that I have heard many Germans explain what they love about America. I have just learned to not take it the wrong way when I get obvious looks of criticism about what I do. I am proud that I am doing what I love and feel like I am doing it well, and I try my best to take it with a grain of salt and embrace the best part of both worlds.
tonight I actually made a decision based on emotions, not the facts, and it will cause some fallout tomorrow. I felt really 'dumb' making this decision, but I still wanted to make it. Thankfully my husband was supportive of me, even though it might leave him having to deal w/some weirdness that other people might project at him/me. he still said it was best for me, so i should do it. i love him =)
I still think you're going to get an awesome apt. Really. Maybe you have to go through a refining process now so you can recognize it when it comes along. I feel like life can be like that in general. =) hang in there
Now imagine a combination teacher+lawyer. In HH. I met such a couple once and they didn't make an impression of happy people being chased by landlords all the time. In fact, they had been looking for over a year by that moment.
Well, to be very honest, gut feelings and the like are all fine. But if there is anther nice flat you can get - go for it! One can complain about Germans being insensitive and wanting stability everywhere. Not flexible enough. However, this is a country where 'rent nomads' is reality.
This is why one should be really happy he/she can get a good place. I' m pretty sure it'll work out for you, Holly, but don't be too suspicious of German landlords, please :)
Greetings from Frau Mayer
...just like I had this happen to me with my fellow Americans when I lived in America =)
also - don't be scared of them either. most of them are intrigued by us Amis. it usually works out to everybody's advantage, esp if you flash a big, friendly smile at them first! =)
I recommend you join "Mieterschutzbund:" http://www.mieterschutzbund.de/. You get free legal advice and protection for a relatively small annual fee.
Good luck finding that apartment of your dreams! I'm sure it's still out there somewhere!
So sorry that your search for an apartment has taken such a negative turn. I am sure that this in only temporary. Today is Monday and that was last week. Today the sky is bright and the sun is shining.
sorry to hear abour the apartement.
I wanted to comment on your blog today for the first time because I'm in complete agreement with Christine's comment. There are so many generalizations on this blog and in many comments and I find this very upsetting sometimes. Of course things in Germany are diffrent from what they are in America, but there is not the ONE way things are in Germany. And I think it's the same in America. I would love, if people could be more differentiated. Maybe (I'm not talking of specifically you, Holly) people are more aware of things which are different and not so good because they are new to them and they don't feel confident in their enviroment.
I hope you don't feel offended by what I wrote, because that's really not what I intended.
Good luck with your search!
Katharina
Good luck with your search, Im sure you will find the perfect place,
Ruth
i also don´t quite understand why you decided not to rent the place, but one day you will find something that feels right and all will be good. I am sure of that.
I already wrote a few times, that having lived in several countries and with relatives in the UK, Candada, USA, France and Holland I know that the German real estate market and the German ways are not sooo different from the ones in many other places. My Mum, who is half amercian herself (and spent her teens and early twenties in America) always had some things to complain about in Germany. But the "rental-rules" were not one of them. She alsways thought it great how people were protected by law. I have friends who have been looking for an apartment in NYC for over a year. They look at a bunch of places each weekend. The questions they have to answer are sometimes very odd ("Do you plan put more than two kids in one room?" "How long hours does your husband work?") My sister in law had a terrible time finding something to rent in Kensington. And my ex and his family left Paris because of the situation for renters... As my ex says: There are problems everywhere, they are same same but different.
I also own a a small place that I rent out in Germany and I am very careful who I take as a tennant myself. I agree that the laws here are a "anti-landlord", and I know this will be changed soon by the current government. But I hope the law will never be changed completely, as I am glad to live in a country that shows social responsibilitie for its people. I loved living in the US (which I did for some years) und I loved most of the people I met there. But I was shocked and appalled by the lack of social justice I found there.
Some thoughts on "Selbstständige", meaning self employed people: I am one myself (after a few years working for a big comopany) and I am surrounded by them. I never experienced people being difficult due to this.
When my partner & I were both self employed and were looking for a rental we had to prove that we had a steady income within the last 12 months.
I do believe though, that some folks/landlords are nervous about self employed tennants.
Be confident and self-assured when talking to them! Tell people how good your business is going and have a proof for them (tax sheet etc).
Disclaimer: I am dutch, our laws to fire someone are quite strict and rumour has it that german laws are way stricter. One aspect that I've come across and always have been jealous of. When you're pregnant you can take 3 years of unpaid leave and when those years are up and you haven't taken another job your
employer has to t
ake you back. I know a woman who
had two babies and lived abroad for five years and came back to a secure job.
In Holland if you want to fire someone in most cases you have to go before court to prove why! So that protectection of your income is a protection for the landlord that you will actually get money. that beside the benefits an employee gets when she does get fired.. (vs an selfemployed person losing customers).
I don't know if this would help or not, but have you made a portfolio of sorts with all the books/magazine articles you have written, columns you regularly write, advertising money that comes in, how many hits you get per day, classes you have taught, etc.? Maybe this would convince them you are not destitute and are very successful?
I wish you the best.
sorry to hear that you didn't take the apartment, but I'm sure you'll find a great one eventually! (It took as about 30 open days in Berlin to find our dream-flat, not the dream-landlord, but since we rarely have to deal with him but spend every day in the flat, I think thats ok...)
I am also with you that the appreceation of selfemployed people/artists etc. has yet to grow in Germany, but at least in Berlin I think its already getting better.
However as a renter, and somebody who realistically will never ever own an apartment I am very happy about the laws that currently exist. Especially in up-and-coming quarters of the city, I think it is necessary that landlords can't just kick you out with 3 months notice, just because they want to rent the apartment out to somebody else who will pay higher rent.
Also recently there I read a very informative article on "Mietnomaden", the people who don't pay rent and trash the apartment, then leave and cannot be found: aparently there are much less of these people than everybody thinks! And there are things like deposits to protect the landlords property (plus all the insurances the landlord has on his property, which are , in fact paid by the renters through the Nebenkosten).
Sorry for ramling a bit, but I just wanted to bring a slightly different perspective to this, to maybe help you not to take all of this too seriously.
After all, you already live in a georgous flat (love what you have done to it), and I'm sure you'll find a nice flat!
One last idea: I had a very precice idea of where I wanted to live and where I didn't, ended up in a place I never wanted to live, and it turned out great!
I just wanted to write in because I have been in a very similar situation. I am American, I work in design and I have a German Partner. We lived in Germany for two years ( Frankfurt- you and I emailed about it a few years ago) and here's what I've got to tell you: It's not germany, It's you.
You are not going to bend an entire society, economy and culture around your lifestyle. Especially not the Germans, they don't bend. Unfortunately if you are going to live there, you are going to have to adapt and bend and find your way to be you while living there. You will do it, it just takes time and in the end you will probably be more "you" than you ever were before.
The other thing is this.... imagine you were a landlord in the USA and a couple showed up, one of whom was a recent immigrant who didn't speak English or have a local job, but wanted you to take a chance on them because they thought they could pay the bills... would you rent to them?I don't know if I would. Why should a German landlord behave differently?
So go out there and find an amazing apartment. Find something you could never get in the USA. Sell yourself! you are amazing, you have a fantastic career. you have a fantastic relationship. Smile. and then grin and bear it. Once you get through the application process you will hopefully never have to do this again. Will it stink? yeah. Will it be worth it to have a home, especially for people like us who's entire lives are built around nesting? Absolutely. Good luck to you and your guy!
its me - the landlord (what a word)
Sorry to read about the background of your decision. Sometimes even talking to people in their own language is not a guarantee to be understood right.
I tried to tell You, that I have decided only based on sentiments - positive sentiments towards freelanced people.
Having exrerienced that my own decisions only based on sentiments and affection were not always right, I asked you to join me for a pizza. During this dinner I learned that both of you are serious, reliable, openminded and focused on your work.
I learned that people are very interested in your blogs - before the conversation I did not know anything about blogging.
I remember telling you that I also feel very uncomfortable with "inquisitive" questions.
But when I recall my feelings concerning some of the topics that we discussed I can also remember some kind of annoyance,
that I have asked questions.
But I know that people understand each other only when they listen and ask, after they have felt.
After I decided to give up my architects-business as a freelancer two years ago because of too much hazzle with clients I reduced my standard of living. Owning 2 flats I decided it suitable to rent a smaller flat to live in. I was asked to proof my income, and I also felt challenged to retreat into my Schneckenhaus.
But I did not, because the questioning is not a personal objection, but it helps to live in peace.
And that was why I took the flat and live in a beautiful house with nice people. And I have a very relaxed relation to my landlord.
Manchmal muss man über seinen eigenen Schatten springen....
I think Thomas will be able to interpret that German Wordplay.
I wish You that your dreams come true.
Dieter
PS: I still want to say something:
I never wanted to insult you with my proposal to have dinner together. If you feel like that I say sorry.
Everything has a flip side, and Europa is old world in many ways. It's beautiful and it has a flip side of too old and set in ways.
The culture is so rich but with that comes not wanting to change.
Adapting to different cultures makes you so rich in many ways over time.
You are in a wonderful phase, of absolute growth.
Which does mean, that you have to stay close to your source ( inner voice) to stay centered and be able to take on the nay sayers in graceful way and honor your self at the same time. You know who you are, just because the question it doesn't mean you have to defend yourself, just do and you will she they will start to believe in you.
I have felt that being from Amsterdam but have been living for the last 14 years in Seattle has been the best "education" life could have given me.
It has made me question therefor created and believe so much more in myself versus being not challenged by society what I believe in.
We sold our apartment in Amsterdam 14 years ago since we had no powers as owners and we would pretty much owned something and never to be able to move back in. laws are changing but the flip side is and was that not only people with money can live in nicer places.
Everything has a flipside and that thought process has made difficult situation in the USA easier for me to process.
I hope i make sense,
Best,
Linda
I am so glad that you wrote here because it makes me glad to know that my ideas about you are correct -- you are a very nice man with a gold heart.
Yes, Thorsten was correct in what he said. But of course I had my own feelings and mostly those came from feeling like I was not "good enough" as someone with a "real" job and how inferior I felt that now, understanding how this is more of cultural thing to "meet the landlord" before signing a contract then I understand now fully that I need not feel inferior because it's typical here to be asked many questions.
In the end, I have to learn a lot and I know that. I clearly need to spend more time here to understand local custom and culture because visiting here and living here are very different things.
You are so nice to comment. :)
Melinda
Looking for my rent home I usually really let feelings decide, since it is the most important thing – how I feel there.
Somebody mentioned not having National Insurance Number and not being able to rent a flat. I never ever in all those yreas was asked things like this.
This being said – Germans are very xenophobic. And very formal. But on the other hand I knew all this when coming here ;-).
Also i was unpleasantly supprised by some comments here. I am not a German. This by side, if I would feel so bad about people/society here I would (I know I would) search some other place for me.
I am not writing this to you Holly but to some commentators above.
What I do love in Germany is social care, then the fact that I can stay with my kids for more then a year and get my full salary. What I still don't like is – weather.
If one of upper comments was your landlord, he sounds pretty nice (much nicer then any landlord I ever had!) so now I really don't understand even more your decision. But this is not important. Important is that you believe in it.
But since I dont't live with landlord then in/with an apartment I would go for it.
Even if a landlord would not be so nice. But yours seems to be VERY nice.:-)
I am just a renter, but if I would own an apartment I would be for sure worse then any of my landlords were ;-)))
I have to guess these days that I really have a lot of growing up to do. Moving to Germany has made me almost feel like I'm starting at the beginning again -- like I am in first grade on so many levels -- language, culture, general understanding of customs, lifestyle. It's been fine and I love it here but I really need to learn a lot.
i hear you on moving. strangely when i was young (17) and moved to iowa of all places (i have family there) i experienced quite a bit of culture shock. i think nothing on the magnitude of what you are probably experiencing, but it was disorienting. i think in the long run living so many places (5 cities so far) has influenced me greatly so i am really happy for that. there is part of me that wants to stay put after all this but another part that would love to learn more about other places and how other people live.
i don't know much about germany or germans but my brother's girlfriend is german and my brother has told me a few things about how their culture is different from our predominently british one (we're english/irish/scottish)... it sounds to me from your blog and from what my brother has said that their culture is quite unique!
it is so great that you are having all these learning experiences - even if it's challenging at times. i daydream sometimes about relocating to europe, but right now it's not in the cards for my husband and i. while we're both self-employed, our businesses have become too firmly rooted here!
i hope you have a wonderful weekend and thanks as always for getting all of us talking about our experiences :)
I almost started to cry after reading your post and all the comments. I know exactly how you feel right now because I went trough the same phase after moving to Canada. Here in Quebec it is called "choc culturel" and even if you are very well educated and informed about the new society you will still go trough this phase (or "growing up" like you said it). Curiously, when I moved to Germany in the beginning of the nineties, I found it less difficult because German culture reminded me of my culture of origin. My first three years in Canada were very, very hard for me (language, job, climate, culture, relationships...) but soon after that it all started to look much better. One thing that I know for sure: as soon as I started accepting things as they are here (and not comparing them all the time with my country or Germany) everything seemed better and easier. Believe me, if I could, I would go back and slap my silly old self for losing precious time and energy over some oh! so not important things. We never stop learning. Whatever you have planned, I truly wish you the best of luck!
I totally feel everything you are saying here, every-single-solitary-word.
The thing about these European countries is that the bureaucracy is so deeply entrenched in these laws that the chance for new life to be breathed into the system is small. This is why America is such a grand experiment.
My feeling has always been in Germany and many other European country that there is a great tendency toward mediocracy. Those who stick their heads out risk getting it cut off (or not getting the apartment, or getting stereotyped and discarded).
My husband can tell stories. He brought IKEA to America (opened the first store in Philadelphia) and brought Staples to Germany. He was President of Staples in Germany for 7 years. You would not believe how many people would not work for Staples because they felt it was an American "hire-fire" company - like working for a German company was more in accordance with German law? Perception. Fear. Crazy.
Ok, we could finish a bottle or two of wine over this one, and maybe some day we will.
I am very proud of my husband and I for leaving all of that feigned "security" in Germany to buy an old farm in Italy and live our dream. You only live once.
You keep going, girlfriend. You're doing great.
I love learning their language (taking my Zertifikat Deutsch then off to take Business German). I stayed with my mother-in-law for 2 months -the longest ever and back to wherever we are posted. Never stayed that long in Germany but travelled several times there.
So about the laws and rentals - I agree on the character interview etc and checking on bank accounts etc: it is for security reason and I think it is good. I have nothing against how the Americans are conducting their future renters - if they are not that thorough, it is their choice. Example-US banks are giving credit cards (pre-approved) without background check.
It is true that they have lots of laws but for a reason. Enjoy Germany - Hannover is also a nice city.