Housing Discrimination
Okay I want to talk about something that is NOT comfortable to discuss in public, and I'm aware of that and willing to take the risk of posting this.
I'd like to talk about housing discrimination. It happens in America, though it's veiled and behind a cover, but here in Germany it's very out in the open. And I'm trying to understand how I feel about this. Especially since I was once a manager in Human Resources and you don't know how many years and classes I had to sit through discussing discrimination in the workplace. But what about discrimination in housing?
I mention this because a few apartments we've called about or viewed were specific about what kind of people they did not want to occupy their dwelling. I've already heard them say or list directly in the ad that this apartment did not want elderly people, and another agent told us that an apartment we liked was not for parents with small children. And today I heard yet another "want" of another landlord who expressed quite openly without reservation, "Well we will show you the apartment but keep in the mind that the landlord only wants a family with children". Is this typical in Germany? Because in America, this is called Housing Discrimination under Title VIII of the Fair Housing Act also known as the Civil Rights Act of 1968.
Opinions?
Comments
I hope you find your perfect new home though!
Most owners simply want to rent to people that will pay on time.
Good luck for your search!
I know people who prepared for each view like actors for a theatre performance. In that way it is much easier if someone is that frank to tell in the ad about what he wants. Don´t get me wrong, housing discrimination is not to my linking. But that gives you time to either place a cushion under your dress or to hide the belly, to put on exta lipstick or to come in casual wear...
I keep my fingers crossed that you and T soon will find a lovely apartment!
Okay so when I go to look at this apartment I will tell them the truth, that I plan to have a family and that this would be the perfect place for a growing family! It's honest so... :)
I think in the end it's good for you too, if your landlord is comfortable with you living there, then they'll most likely leave you alone :)
I personally don't want to live in a complex with children - I've lived next door to so many screaming babies and yelling 7 year olds that I want quiet. I don't want to live near barking dogs or college kids.
I generally pay a lot in rent so that I have a place I'm comfortable in, that I don't want to move from, and that makes me happy whilst there. So if I moved in knowing that a landlord was providing a certain environment, I'd know what to expect and either rent or walk away.
There are places in America that are for seniors, there are low income housing and there's rules about how much you make. So there is that side in America it's just you're not supposed to say "you can't have kids" - but you can say "you can't have dogs."
I think if you are specific as a renter about what you want, the landlord should be able to be specific about who they rent to and what environment they're putting out. I'd love to know that my neighbours weren't going to be 20 and partying all night before I signed a one year lease.
All things nice...
I thanked him for his time and asked for his statement in writing. Some people really just do not "get" that they are discriminating.
btw- honesty is the best policy. You don't want to find out they're passive-agressively hating on you when you move in preggers (or not) =) Who wants to move again b/c of a turned-nasty neighbors/landlord?
You made me giggle with the comment of starting a family! I really do hope you find your "perfect" home.
Usually here if you're friendly with the agent they will tell you if you're the type of person the landlord is looking for - it's good not to get your hopes up that way.
I hate house-hunting.
The no-fish thing is funny!
race
color
religion
national origin
sex
disability
familial status
Each state may have additional classes which are protected - in my state there are five more. Here, we are warned to be VERY careful about how we advertise and are advised not to say specific things, even seemingly harmful things such as "great family home".
I'm going to say that in my experience that even though it is not legal here, it still (sadly) happens when an apartment is being rented by the owner, who may not concern themselves with what's legal and what isn't (sadder yet). However, if this was an agency, I would consider it not only wrong and illegal, but highly unprofessional as well. What's common isn't always what's right.
It's in the end then really about being the one free to choose what you'd like to live in, or the one being chosen.
And what already has been said about renters rights...
While living in HH, my ex-boyfriend and I were performing every time we went to view something, wearing fancy clothes and being extraordinary nice.
Once and twice we almost got to the contract, which meant pulling our pants down completely. Telling EVERYTHING about the financial situation, savings etc. Fancy telling a landlord-to-be what you have in the bank? See!
Have you considered having a "searching-for-a-flat" ad published in the HAZ? It might prove very effective!
oh and dont underestimate the power of visualization :D keep imagining your ideal place and it will come heehee :) you'll see!
I think it's a fair procedure on the site of the landlord to make sure that you rent to someone reliable.
As someone mentioned before, it is really difficult to get a tenant out of an apartment once you let them in. Even if the tenants haven't paid their rent for month, it often takes years to go through the whole court procedure to get an eviction order. And if the tenants are persistent, they will delay court proceedings by sueing the landlord themselves for various reasons.
I also experienced that German landlords try to find the right mixture of tenants, i.e. not a house full of only families with small children but also not only singles or elderly. In all four apartments I have lived in so far (in Berlin), there were always families, elderly, students and singles together in the same house.
After we compared notes I called the number back and got the original (lower, encouraging) answer from a different agent. Neither of us had been asked any questions about employment, pets or children, so the bias was pretty obviously racial. It still bothers me all these years later and I'm annoyed that I never reported the real estate agency.
Now we own a house. :)
jane
I can understand limiting pets (can cause damage) as some people allow them to damage property. I personally like when large rentals (mulitple buildings) set aside certain buildings to be families, or partners with kids, only. As a single who likes calm, I appecicate not listening to running feet above me or screaming kids, or slamming doors. Plus I'm sure that parents like having other parents close by, or at least they're kids can apartment hop without leaving the builing.
The elderly thing... might depend. If its a building that lacks ease of use, they might be worried about falls or lack of elevators or such.
Or maybe I like to thing the best of people and situations.
friends of ours inherited a building in Berlin with 5 apartments in it some years ago. The trouble they have had with some of their tennants is unbelievable.
They always tried to be very open about whom they rented out to.
I think after many nightmarish incidents and a nasty court case they will become more picky when seeking potential tenants.
I unerstand your frustration, but I have a sense of understanding for "discriminating" landlords.
Also, many landlords have their "no-go"-list in their head but don´t communicate it (as it isn´t really politicillay correct). That means that 60% of the people coming to see their apartment never had a chance in the firsts place. I´d rather know by forehand if it makes sense to go and see a place.
One sentence in german: Nicht verzagen, Holly! Deine Traumwohnung wird kommen. Die Immobiliengöttin ist auf deiner Seite!
/Eva
I really recommend to check with what kind of people you´re going to live "together" as neighbours for the next couple of years or even longer.
One of my friends had a family with children as neighbours who were living in the apartment above her. The mother allowed her child to drive a "Bobby Car" for hours.
My friend almost had a nervous breakdown.
The factor "neighbours" shouldn´t be underestimated. They can turn your life into hell. High ceilings and wooden floors don´t make up for that.
Good luck!
No smokers, no welfare recipient...
Also I lived in a house with lot of kind and having no kid I was not happy with noise, crying whole night etc. But landlord warned me and I did't listen.I shouldm't take this apart. in the first place.
"I think if you are specific as a renter about what you want, the landlord should be able to be specific about who they rent to and what environment they're putting out. I'd love to know that my neighbours weren't going to be 20 and partying all night before I signed a one year lease.2
I agree so much. I think it is in common interest to declare those rules and all this before we all sign.
I love my peace and was this time very specific what kind of a home I want to pay, so I would be very upset if in our VERY quiet house suddenly our landlord would aloud big families. And those families would't also be happy in house like this.
Neither of us had ever been about employment, savings, background...
To Eva - single mom from Turkey, dear Eva no I am not white middle class, i am an "auslander" in Germany. You can hear that when I speak. And germany soical system is well made for single parents. You would probably get much nicer flat then i can even afford for much less money, a new nice apartment. So no, I am not ashamed to have some whiches with who i want to live with.
I adore all of my neighbours, really adore - thanks to landlord who was honest enough before I sign.
And of course, in some places there is one more requirement: you have to be at least 60 to be considered. :D
Be patient and hang in there. I'm sure you'll find something suitable!
Good luck on the appartement hunt anyway, in time you will find a place you both like. As others have said in other posts though, don't hope for Hamburg beeing any better, it is far worse! It was our luck that we found one within a month eventhough we are poor students still.
BUT just because this happens everywhere - does not make it right. I am looking at getting a place in Japan and it sounds worse and way more expensive. they won't even let you look at the place if they don't want a gaijin renting
Here in Munich, the housing situation is so bad - my Dad had to guarantee that he will pay the rent if my boyfriend and I won't be able to pay anymore - and we both earn a living!:-)
But I still see it as a fair trade off in Germany where tenants - once in the property - have more rights than the owner. Eviction here is terribly difficult, which justifies the selection process for me.
I've lost fabulous apartments to expectant couples (2 x last time). I'm still annoyed by it.
We had to play the game back at them by: flaunting my husband's PhD, keeping my american-accented mouth mum, and over-selling our intentions to have kids (right NOW vs soon...).
So maybe what I am getting at here is: develop a strategy to help yourself be most attractive to the kind of places you want. Allude to a pregnancy perhaps? ;-)
I find it funny to read about renters mostly abroad who aren't allowed to paint their ugly green walls e.g. because I have never heard of someone here who wasn't allowed to choose their paint color.
I hope you find a wonderful apartment soon with a nice landlord!
Some of the comments here are just flat out illegal(as in, you will see a day in court with very very nasty fines) in the US.